tonight a cnn special. >> you can't engage in hoss tack taking. >> what a train wreck. >> metaphors about d.c. dysfunction. but now a possible ray of hope? talk tonight and just talk about a deal. even if it won't last past the middle of the football season. >> i'm happy to negotiate on anything. >> we need to sit down and have a conversation. >> also, in a partisan world -- >> my intention coming here was

to help solve problems. >> he isn't beholden to either side. independent senator angus king of maine is our get. and congress's approval rating plummets to its near death. the news isn't that it's so lowers it's that 5% of the public still thinks congress is doing aok. to quote seinfeld "who are these people?" this is "shutdown showdown." welcome to this special half hour of cnn "shutdown showdown." i'm jake tapper. we are an hour away from this partial government shut down going into double digits. at midnight it will be ten days. also at midnight marks one week until we hit the debt ceiling after which the u.s. government will no longer have all the money it needs to pay all its bills. i just want to point out at universal studios orlando this evening a bunch of people got stuck on a roller coaster. they all got off safely after an excruciating 2 1/2 hours.

is there a better metaphor for what's going on in washington? there is however some incremental progress to report this evening. earlier this evening in a closed door meeting with house democrats, president obama said he would agree to a short-term increase in the debt limit if the republicans would, too. according to a democrat who was there. if something like that were to pass it would probably only last a few weeks, maybe six. that may not seem long but it is four weeks longer than the tv show "we are men" lasted on cbs. our apologies to the cast. their sitcom got the ax tonight but i digress. tomorrow president obama and house speaker john boehner will come face-to-face. the president invited the entire republican caucuses to the white house but the speaker said no. just the leadership is coming because the hour is late. joining us to discuss the latest on the government shutdown is independent senator angus king of maine. he serves on the budget committee. it wouldn't be shutdown showdown without gloria borger and dana bash. senator king, i want to ask you about this news that we have

that president obama has told democrats that he would be open to a short-term extension of the debt limit and that i heard from a house republican just before the show that that's what house republicans are going to be pushing when they meet with president obama tomorrow. they are not going to be talking about reopening the government but just extending the debt ceiling a few weeks to i guess get us off our crisis footing. is that something you could support? >> well, i don't understand it, frankly. it gets us off our crisis footing this week but we're going to be back on a crisis footing at thanksgiving or sometime. i don't think the debt ceiling ought to be the subject. i think it's perfectly appropriate to negotiate budget issues in connection with the budget. and the continuing resolution and the funding. but the debt ceiling we ought to just do and move on, in my view. so if the president's willing to do it and the republicans agree then i guess that that's probably going to happen.

but that's more of what we seem to do best around here which is put things off. >> i want to introduce you a little bit to our viewers who outside of new england may not necessarily know that much about you. you were a two-term governor? >> two-term governor. >> of maine. you ran against a democrat and a republican. there had been a shutdown in maine two years before and you ran against the partisan system. coming here to washington, is it as bad as you thought? is it worse than you thought? you caucus with the democrats although you've said your mind is open if the republicans ever take control you could caucus with them. are things worse than you thought it might be? >> certainly they are in this two weeks. i don't think i could characterize my first nine months as being worse because we were able to do some bipartisan things. i got very deeply involved last summer in the student loan negotiations, where that was a truly bipartisan deal where we snatched something that was about to die. immigration was done on a bipartisan basis. but the problem is you get into this budget stuff and the affordable care act and you're

getting to the core values of the two parties. and that's the hardest thing of all to make a deal. >> here you are an independent, and do you feel like you're whip sawed? this is the most partisan congress we've seen in awhile, a very partisan issue. you were spotted on the floor of the senate the other day talking to none other than ted cruz, right? your democrats made fun of you a little bit. >> you know, i went over and sat down with ted because i wanted to know can we move beyond this obama care thing. because my view is -- >> what was his answer? >> his answer was no. >> that's so shocking. >> it is. but because it's interesting. for example, today there was an op ed in the wall street journal by paul ryan. did not mention the affordable care act once. >> we noticed that. >> ted cruz noticed that. >> right. so i thought okay if we can move beyond that then we can start talking about budget issues which i this is appropriate. i don't think it's appropriate

to relitigate a major piece of legislation in the context of hostage taking. >> you said can we move beyond it and your democrats said get back over -- >> they didn't say that. when i backed back across the aisle -- >> they said why are you eating at his lunch table? >> yes, it does have a seventh grade quality to it. >> it does. i bumped into senator king last night, i have to say. i thought you were a tourist. i saw him. no, seriously. >> did i look lost? >> no. because you were with your iphone and taking pictures in the rotunda. i thought, that is senator king. and we started talking. but the reason why i mentioned it is because it's a reminder that you are looking at washington with fresh eyes. which is nice. it is refreshing. and so given that and given your experience, give us the scoop on what conversations you might be having to get everybody out of this mess with people on both sides of the aisle since you're an independent. >> a reporter asked me today, what are you doing with all your spare time. >> taking pictures in the rotunda. >> well, let the record show

that was at like 9:00 last night. but i can tell you, there are meetings going on all the time. i've probably met with 15 senators, long conversations. >> democrats you're talking about. >> no, both, republicans, democrats. everybody's trying to figure this out. everybody's trying to figure out how do we get ourselves out of this fix. the focus a lot of the conversation is how do we help john boehner get himself out of the fix that he's in. >> what's the leading idea? >> well, i think the leading idea is if we can get them away from trying to relitigate the affordable care act, then there are lots of things to talk about. >> but you can't. ted cruz said no. >> but you look at paul ryan. i mean, i'd call that a kind of wilted olive branch. >> a wilted olive branch. >> it was an olive branch. he was saying here are things we can do that maybe will get us out of this. he didn't mention the affordable care act. and one of the problems, one of the reasons i can share a little

bit of per respective both side. one of the reasons the democrats in the senate are so adamant about this is they felt like they've already given at the office. harry reid made a deal with john boehner in early september. we're going to take the lower number on the sequester number on the continuing resolution. we hate it. we don't like it. but okay, to get it done. and then the speaker couldn't get the votes. >> and the democrats said to me, the speaker can't deliver a pizza. they're very annoyed with that. >> but he's doing his best. i'm sure he didn't go into his caucus saying, don't let me do this. >> senator let me ask you a question. this has become -- i asked senator durbin about this today, the democrat from illinois, which is house republicans obviously are the ones who started this shutdown. because they said defund obama care or we won't fund the government. and that was just a nonstarter for the senate, a nonstarter for the president. >> yes, everybody knew from the beginning. >> as john boehner said in march which is why in march he said he

wasn't going to pursue that strategy. >> john mccain said they never should have promised their constituents they could do it. >> but here we are. and john boehner needs something to take back to his caucus to get something through the house of representatives. is that something the democrats are thinking about? look, even if he and his tea party caucus is the reason we're here, we still -- we're all in this together? >> yeah. we got to plate hand that's dealt us. i understand that. on the other hand, you ought to have him on and get his views. >> i'd love to. >> i don't want to put thoughts into his head. but i don't think you're ever going to satisfy 40 to 80 members of this kacaucus. short of repeal iing obama care would do it. he can look i can deliver some deficit reduction, some entitlement reform. and if i can do that, i think that will solidify the caucus enough to give him the votes. >> and let's leave it right there. we're going to take a quick

break. senator angus king independent of maine will stay with us and dana and gloria. when we come back president obama said he has a topgs to get speaker john boehner out of the tree he's stuck in. that's a quote. but is a short-term solution good for the long-term economy? more when we come back. you really love, what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪ when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪

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welcome back. we're back with senator angus king, former governor of maine. he's only been in the senate for ten months. and as an independent, he's got some interesting admirers. such as former independent minnesota governor jesse ventura who's considering he says a presidential run. he might be looking for a running mate. >> i would consider senator angus king from maine the former independent governor. he and i were the only two independent governors. so it very well could be a ventura-king combination. >> have you talked to angus king about this? >> i have not. >> so this is news to him? >> he knows i'd pick him because he's the only guy i would trust. >> yea or nay? are you on the ticket? >> you want to tell jesse no? you tell him. >> he actually said beforehand his first choice was howard stern. >> you had to pop my bubble so quickly? >> sorry.

>> jesse and i were at the independent governor's caucus. he is a great guy. . if he actually ran would you consider running with him? >> we'll have to discuss that. >> that door is wide open. >> let's turn back to our more serious topic, which is the debt ceiling debate. >> i measure the drapes at biden's. >> the debt ceiling debase probably we could agree is of more consequence than the government shutdown. we know that the government will reopen at some point. the question is, if we pass the date where we hit the debt ceiling, how bad would the damage be to the stock market? what else might happen? who else wouldn't get paid? we were talking earlier about a potential short-term deal. president obama and house speaker john boehner are likely to talk about tomorrow. i'm told that house republicans are even considering introducing legislation tomorrow for a short-term deal to lift the debt ceiling. you have real skepticism about that. >> well, it's just going make the markets skiddish for another six weeks or whatever.

i don't see why we can't just get that off the table. we don't have to speculate. i understand there are people who basically are denying that this is going to be a real problem. we don't have to speculate on that. in 2011, the stock market fell 2,000 points. 17% in just a few days. $2.4 trillion of wealth was wiped out. in the country. just in that week. job creation went down. interest rates went up. mortgage rates went up. to even be talking about this is ridiculous. >> but you know why we're talking about this. we're talking about this because the president has said don't compromise. i'm not going to negotiate on anything. the speaker has said, you can't say don't negotiate. so this is sort of a middle ground. >> and they get to keep the government shutdown by the way which some of them want to do. >> it wouldn't include reopening the government. >> they can say they made their point on obama care and that's still hanging out there.

>> you've got these two things coming at the same time. you've got the government shutdown and debt be debt ceiling. it just happens they align unfortunately. in my view we ought to pass the debt ceiling and move on. the shutdown i don't like. >> we did ask him for his view. that's why he's here. >> just a little reality check on that. >> but do the negotiation around the budget. that's where you negotiate these kinds of things. >> the senate hasn't -- i know you haven't been here for all that long, but the senate until this year had gone many years without doing a budget. >> right. >> you have a bill that says if the senate doesn't introduce a budget, senators don't get paid. >> that's right. and i supported it. >> right. >> and we passed a budget for the first time in four years. i think they have gone to the floor 18 times to move for conference on the budget. and a few republicans block it every time. >> so do you like your job? you've been here what, nine months? ten months? as long as you and ted cruz, same class? >> well, listen.

for somebody who is curious, likes public policy and likes trying to fix things, yes. and i worked here 40 years ago as a staff member in the senate. and to come back as a senator is almost surreal. but it is pretty -- i mean this, week is pretty awful. i mean, there's no question. >> can i just turn the conversation back? we only have a minute left to the paul ryan op ed. because i've heard republicans talk about maybe this could be a big grand bargain. maybe what we could get out of this is lifting the debt ceiling, reopening the government, normal funding levels, not the sequester levels that house republicans want. >> he suggested in there there are ways to deal with sequester. >> entitlement reforms and tax reform. is that something you think would be ultimately good for the country? >> yes. we do have to do something about the debt and deficit, we do have to do something serious. although the deficit is coming way down. it's fallen 60% in the last year. we're lot better off than we were. but we have to do more. and i think what he's proposing

is we ought to at least open that discussion. >> we will leave threat. senator angus king, independent of maine who caucuses with the democrats. thank you soap for bei much for here. coming up, 5%. 5% of americans approve of the job congress is doing in washington. either that or their cable's been out for the last couple weeks. stay with us. i was made to work. make my mark with pride. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars. a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪ like they helped millions of others.

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welcome back to "shutdown showdown." congress ace approval ratings according to a recent associated press poll is down to 5%. 5%. 5% of america looks at the work being done on capitol hill by our lawmakers and says yes, yes, i like what i see. so who are these people? stay with us. we'll be right back. clay. mom? come in here. come in where? welcome to my mom cave. wow. sit down. you need some campbell's chunky soup before today's big game, new chunky cheeseburger. mmm. i love cheeseburgers. i know you do. when did you get this place? when i negotiated your new contract, it was part of the deal. cool. [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup.

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welcome back to "shutdown showdown." this is a country that believes in forgiveness. but 5% of americans, well, perhaps they're little too forgiving. that's the percentage of people who actually approve of the job their representatives are doing in congress. dana, gloria another poll we found online found toenail fungus, miley cyrus, twerking, hemorrhoids and wiccen all with higher approval ratings. >> i want to talk about people who actually approve of toenail fungus. who are those people? >> they probably work for companies that make the ointments. >> dana's now defending congress. >> i'm absolutely not. we're a little punchy this late. listen, i think that it's no surprise.

and everybody in congress laughs about their approval rating. but then they don't do anything about it. >> 5% approval rating. 98% are going to get re-elected. >> because all the districts are so polarized it doesn't really matter what they're doing. think about that. >> love your congress, love your congressman. >> 5% live on the moon. >> still, shockingly low. dana, gloria thank you very much. thanks for joining us tonight. thank you for watching. i'm jake tapper. be sure to catch me weekdays on the lead. i'll be right back here tomorrow night at 11:00 p.m. eastern, 8:00 p.m. pacific. have a good night. "crossfire" starts right now. tonight on "crossfire", running out of time. running out of money, running out of patience. does anyone have a solution?

>> back in the 90s, the republican party and mr. gingrich realized this isn't a sensible way to do business. >> how about now? on the left, van jones. on the right, newt gingrich in the crossfire. democratic representative rosa delauro who's just been to a white house briefing and republican senator raul labrador who wants the president to negotiate. tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm van jones on the left. >> i'm newt gingrich on the right. the president is getting his history exactly wrong. we negotiated all the way through in 1995 and 1996. that's how we got a deal. this president says he wants a deal first, then he'll negotiate? here's how he fantasized about history yesterday. >> the republican party and mr. gingrich realized this isn't a sensible way to do business. that we shouldn't engage in

brinksmanship like this. and then they started having a serious conversation with president clinton about a whole range of issue and they got some things that they wanted. they had to give the democrats some things that the democrats wanted. >> you know, what i find fascinating about this, i went back and actually read some of the stuff from 1995 and '96. bill clinton like president obama had a veto pen. that was his great strength. the house had the ability to pass legislation involving money. that was our great strength. so we sort of check mated each other. we had a brief temporary shutdown for five days. came back, thought we had a deal. about a month later the deal fell through. we went out for 16 days. came back, and by then we had a real deal. but we talked all the way through it. >> well, i can't debate with you about the past because you were here and i wasn't here. but i do think this president is smarter than people are giving him credit for. i think this president looked that the republican party, saw a lot of dysfunction and said, i'm not going to negotiate with that

republican party and held them at bay. an now you're seeing better voices in the republican party come out. you saw paul ryan with a very constructive proposal today. coburn's coming out. i think this president is playing it pretty smart. luckily we have some guests here who maybe have insight into this. today in the crossfire to help us talk this through, democratic representative rosa delauro of connecticut. she's just come back from the white house where she met the with our president. we also have rising star republican representative raul labrador of idaho. he will not be going to the white house tomorrow, although all the house leadership will be going. let's start with you. first of all, welcome to "crossfire." so good to have you both here. are you disappointed? the president asked you to come to the white house. he asked every single republican to come. and you're turning him down? i don't understand why you're not going. >> i don't think i'm turning him down. i think the speaker of the house decided that he would go with leadership. i don't have an opposition to that. i'm willing to go to the white house if the president wants me there. in fact, if he wants to have

dinner tomorrow night i'm ready to go. >> very good he said he's disappointed that all the republicans he asked to come over are not coming. are you disappointed not to be going? >> no. like i said if he wants me to go i'll go tomorrow night. i have time. i'll clear my schedule for him. make sure we can have a nice intimate dinner. >> are you going to do tomorrow? you're invited. >> i've been really pleased with what speaker boehner has been doing for the last couple of weeks. i'm not going to do anything to step on his mess. he's actually unified the party like we haven't been before. >> honestly for real, you are a rising star. you are a big voice in this party. you're important to this party. the tea party is being sidelined. boehner is going to meet with the president without you. how do you feel about that? >> i'm totally fine with it. if you look at what's goington to be proposed, all the different things we have talked about, it's the things that we have been asking for for the last 2 1/2 years. in fact some of us have been disappointed that our speaker hasn't been strong enough in his negotiations with the president. and i'm fully supportive of what he's doing right now because

he's actually told the speaker that he's not going to cave, he's going to continue to fight until the president is willing to come to the negotiating table. >> good soldier. >> he'll actually negotiate now. >> you just came from the white house where your caucus met with the president. my understanding is that congresswoman helena holmes norton made a very impassioned plea down there for the president to consider seriously the problems of washington, d.c. as you know, the house has passed a bill that would fund d.c. in a free, clear, no conditions attached to it. mayor gray has begged the senate to pass it. eleanor holmes norton has begged it. what's your position about helping some unique hardship cases that could easily be taken care of while this negotiating is going on? >> first of all let me just say i'm sorry you're not going. and i wish that in fact the entire -- your entire caucus is going and we were chagt before there really is quite an extraordinary impact in being at the white house. and the camaraderie amongst your

colleagues and with regard to a back and forth, the opportunity for a back and forth with the president. and sometimes it's great not just to have leadership have the opportunity to interact with the president. but quite frankly, rank and file. newly-elected members who can get up in that situation and go toe to toe with the president of the united states. it's a wonderful forum. and that's true quite frankly with whomever would be in the white house. to your question, let me just say this. this is a -- i understand my colleague, eleanor holmes norton. she's passionate and that's her job is to be a fierce advocate for the district. but the issue is that one cannot deal piecemeal with the government. i'm an ovarian cancer survivor. i 23 years have fought for increased funding for cancer.

but to say that we're going to do this piece over another piece over another piece, you leave people out. you leave agencies out. you've got folks who are not getting the benefit of the services of the federal government. that is what it means to open the government. >> i'm having a really hard time with this argument that you guys have been using for the last two weeks. we have 12 appropriation bills that we pass every single year. we've passed four in the house. the senate has refused to pass any appropriations bills in the last three years or four years. that's what appropriations are. it's a piece meal process where you look at government individually. so i'm really not sure where this argument is coming from. >> you do have 12 agencies. that is the entire federal government. but the fact is that none of the 12 in this instance went when you did have a shutdown. and mr. speaker, i was there in '95. there had in fact a number of the appropriation bills had been passed.

>> we have passed four and the senate has refused to take any of them up. >> you have nothing that has finished the process. i'll give you one, for instance, labor, health and education. of which i'm the ranking member on that committee. that bill never even went to the subcommittee. never went to the subcommittee. >> you were right. in 1995 we actually had passed add signed into law six appropriations, half of the total before we got into this fight. >> that's right. >> but for example, i just went back and checked with congressman fred upton who brought to my attention, the veterans administration appropriations bill passed the house with 400 votes on june 4th. it's now 127 days that harry reid and the senate have blocked it. now, the house has since passed a clean appropriations or continuing resolution for the veterans. they passed a clean continuing resolution for veterans. it's also being blocked. he won't pass the appropriations bill and he won't pass the

continuing. >> but i have -- probably not the case with veterans. but i have spent enough time in this institution and on the committees to see whether it was the fda, the food and drug administration, and whether it was the women infants and children's program. i've sat in the committee of head start, quite frankly, where the ryan budget was $1 billion in a cut to head start. now all of a sudden as i said on the floor, people have gotten religion. it sounds like it's politics writ large that just a few months ago, we can't fund head start. we can't fund a wic program. >> i don't think any republican has said that we can't fund head start. >> oh, yes. they did with the ryan budget. it's $1 billion in cuts. >> that's not not funding head start. it amazes me we're meeting you halfway, telling you we want to fund the programs you want to fund. every single bill we have done is because the president said these are the programs that need

to be funded right now. >> you are cherry picking for politics. >> isn't this like a little bit of a trick, though, on your part? sometimes it feels to me a little cynical. >> there's tricks in politics? wow! >> i know. but it does seem like to me that you kind of take these things we complain about and say we'll pass that, we'll pass that. what would stop it from just basically open up everything but obama care? isn't this just a way to refund the entire government except for obama care and defund obama care through the back door? i think that's the concern people have. >> that's what we're saying. >> you admit it? >> no. we don't want to fund obama care for one year. we want to continue to fund the entire government. >> this makes me feel very sad. it feels like then you're taking these kind of heart break cases and using them cynically to make democrats to look bad and try to refund the government while defunding obama care. why not just have a clean resolution? it should be a continuing resolution for the government, not a discontinuing resolution for obama care, right? >> it seems to me that republicans were elected for a

reason. we were elected to kind of stop the obama agenda. we have been very successful the last three years to stop that agenda. we have a divided government. i understand there's a frustration in divided government. but it amazes me that people continue to argue that only what the democrats want to do is what should be done in washington, d.c., when the american people elected us in the house to also have our say. >> i mean, i find that just incredible. you want to pick and choose whatever it is that you want to get done. >> isn't that what the appropriations process is? >> no. we have an appropriations process and we come to a conclusion as to what we're doing. quite frankly, and the president's talk about compromise, the president accepted the republican budget numbers. as a matter of fact, it's much lower than his. >> that's a great talking point but that's not true. >> it is true. it is absolutely true. >> our appropriations number was actually lower for 2014. >> your number is $967 billion.

>> and that's not what the president accepted. >> but this is lower. what the president has sehas s d accepted is lower than what the original ryan budget is now. a bipartisan debate in the senate. a bipartisan debate in the senate. they came to a conclusion based on an agreement with the speak and with harry reid that said clean continuing resolution, the $986 billion level, remove the doe fu defunding of obama care. bipartisan. democratic president has agreed to that. >> republicans didn't agree to that. >> they did in the senate. >> but we have two houses of congress. that's why our founding fathers wanted two different houses. >> what would be the problem in bringing that up for a vote on the house floor? what are you afraid of? >> let me ask it differently. the republicans have sent over a

clean c.r. for women's infants and children's nutrition, for the national institutes of health, for veterans, for the national parks service, for the memorials. a whole range of things going over. >> it's about 7% of the budget. you can't do it and open it up. open the entire government because you've got agencies you're picking and choosing agencies. >> why don't you just surrender to us and do what we want and we'll be happy. i agree if i were a democrat i would love that solution. i'm sorry your turn. >> look, this whole situation i think is so frustrating. i think for just ordinary american people, there's just this sense that all this bickering is resulting in nothing except pain and suffering and a lack of certainty for our markets and people being laid off. i'm tired of the bickering. when we come back, we have two members of the congress here. we have a former speaker of the house. i'm going to ask all three of you how we get out of this mess

and get to a real deal. ready to run your lines?

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stay in the groove with align. welcome back to "crossfire." we are here with two members of congress. we have the legendary rosa delauro who's here and rising star republican raul labrador and my cohost who used to be the speaker of the house. now listen, i am tired of all this crap. we have been bickering and big, all day long on cable tv for weeks and weeks. i want for people to feel at

home like there is some way out of this mess. now, you were the speaker of the house. if you got a phone call from boehner and obama, they're both on the line. they're three-way weighing you in give us hope to get out of this. >> first of all i'd say can i have van join us. you asked me this earlier talking about the show tonight. two talented people like this. and i think where the country is, which i experience when guy out around the country. people just look at this city like we've lost our minds in both parties. there's a general sense. i have three principles that may surprise you. the first is you've got to talk. i mean, the president wants to call it negotiating or whatever. just as you're saying like going down there today. just the act of talking starts some process that's different. second, i had a sign which john boehner cited recently that said, listen, learn, help and lead. he was citing about his own conference. that's how clinton and i operated. we had to listen from each other, learn from each other in

order to figure out what the boundaries are. lastly what i posted to our two friend tonight is start with the easiest part of the negotiation. don't start with the hardest. obama care is the hardest. you're going to get to it last. the president doesn't want to give up anything and the republicans want everything. out of 2700 pages there ought to be something. put it to one side and say okay what could we agree on? >> so that strikes me as somewhat near good. >> what you do not need to have the government shut down while you speak, while you talk. open the government. reopen it. reopen the government and have a conversation. it is not a threat to have a conversation. the president has said -- the president said on tv yesterday. first paragraph of his speech which i heard him and then i read it. i am happy to talk about anything that my republican colleagues want to talk about. i just -- let's open the government and talk.

that is the principle. >> he's had five years to talk and he doesn't talk to the republicans. >> not true, raul. >> doesn't even talk to his own caucus. >> that is not true. >> something we could do, there's something that we offered as house conservatives. we had a bill that was introduce add few weeks ago that would have done a one-year continuing resolution in exchange for a one-year delay of obama care. i think in any negotiation, both sides need to get something. >> you know that's a nonstarter. >> that is a nonstarter. >> what's could you do? you've got to answer too. fair is fair now. somebody's got to give up something that's real. >> i'm concerned about having negotiations on obama care on the debt ceiling. in fact all the house conservatives told the leadership that we didn't want to have negotiations on the debt ceiling about obama care. we wanted to have negotiations about debt, about future deficits, about all those things. so i would actually open up the government. and this would be a concession on my part. i would not open up the government, i would do a debt ceiling increase for six weeks so the president can actually

negotiate with john boehner. and i would keep fighting on the continuing resolution and obama care. separate those two issues. i don't want to worry about the credit worthiness of the united states. >> that's actually interesting. you're saying you would accept a six-week clean debt ceiling vote >> yes. >> well? is that good? >> does that mean the government is still shut down while that is occurring? >> it will be. but at least we don't have to worry about the credit worthiness of the united states. because i am concerned about that. people might want to call me radical, all these different things. but i don't think any republican in the house wants to actually breach the debt ceiling. we are actually very concerned about that. i think that way we can continue to negotiate on the other issue, but we don't actually have to worry about the nation going into chaos if anything happens. >> i think that there is a problem with leaving the government shut down. because of the impact on what is happening to people. the reality of that impact.

>> but you want to us surrender on everything. >> no. i'm just saying to you that why -- this is not something new that you all have engaged in. i recall when we got to the brink on the last debt ceiling. and so what do we do six weeks from now if you don't get everything that you want? do we then just keep moving along with a -- you bring us to the brink of the cliff every time we get there? >> he said he wants to be able to negotiate. we're giving him the opportunity. if we did that we would give him the opportunity to negotiate. >> but then is there -- with a negotiation, if you don't get everything that you want, what do you want? >> i just came in and they're not willing to accept this. >> this is why listen and learn is important. it takes a lot of patience. clinton and i met vastly more often than we wanted to. but let me ask you this if i could, congressman delauro.

if the republicans brought up a clean six-week debt ceiling, without getting involved in the fight over the shutdown, do you think that the caucus would be willing to vote to give us six more weeks to talk? >> well, the caucus has been willing to give a six-week reprieve for talking with regard to the shutdown of the government. why are we separating the two out? let's reopen the government. we can have the conversation about the debt ceiling. i won't put a time frame on it. but if there is an opportunity to talk, i believe in having that opportunity to talk about these things to negotiate. but under the threat that the government is shut or we go over a cliff, in the shutdown -- >> trying to take one of the two away. >> but in the shutdowns that occurred, many republicans have talked about 17 of them. the shutdown was over a spending

issue, not a law. >> that's not true. >> yes. 11 times it was about a spending issue. four times it was contra aid. four times it was abortion. two times it was contra aid. which this was spending areas. >> obama care is a pretty big spending area. >> it's the law of the land, my friend. it's the law of the land. >> so is the sequester. remember that. the sequester is the law of the land as well. >> do you think the president -- here's what i'm confused by. this is the difference. you can grind along with a certain amount of pain and friction with a government shutdown. according to the secretary of the treasury, next week you're going to hit a cliff that is a disaster. so my question would be for harry reid and for the president, if speaker boehner passed a six-week clean debt ceiling to give them time to talk to take the gun away from the president's head on that set of issues, would the senate pass and would the president sign it? >> you know, they may.

i think that is up for conversation. it ought to be up for conversation. but what we shouldn't do is to hold the nation hostage because a small group of people. i want to make one point. i think it's very, very important to note. if the shutdown in '95 -- because this is underlying. let's be clear the issue here. shutdown in '95 was $270 billion in a cut to medicare. $270 billion in a tax cut for the wealthy. fast forward 2013. it is about the affordable care act and shutting the government down. what this is all about underlying everything -- and this is really fundamental in terms of the republican party -- it is roll back social insurance that benefits working and middle class families. that's what this is about. >> that was your interpretation. what we said at the time was, it was about welfare reform, it was about reforming the entitlements, and it was about

getting to a balanced budget. and the only four consecutive balanced budgets in your lifetime came out of that. so if you think balancing the budget matters we did achieve -- >> block grants for well carfar medicaid. >> in the time we've got left a couple of questions for you. two things happened today they was curious about. bun you have paul ryan come out with i thought a very constructive -- again we're trying to get to a deal here. paul ryan came out very constructive proposal today. i thought it was interesting to look at. never thought i'd be praising paul ryan on television but here we are. he left out obama care. is paul ryan right to move forward without obama care? will you get on team paul ryan to get out of this mess? >> ryan was accepting the debt ceiling from the c.r. everything in that article was actually about the debt ceiling. it was about how do we get a handle on our debt and our deficits. and i actually agree with everything paul ryan said. >> why did all your friends jump on him so bad?

aaronson attacked him. >> i talked to paul today about it. he made it pretty clear he was separating both issues. >> he did not even include revenue in that. is revenue off the table? is revenue off the table? >> probably. >> i hate to do this. but because of the time of the program, i have to thank representative delauro. delighted to have you back. again raul labrador, you two are a terrific pair. next we ceasefire. and we look for common ground. we also want you to weigh in on today's fire back question. would breaching the debt limit be catastrophic for the u.s. economy? tweet using #crossfire. we'll have results after the break. just by talking to a he. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked him up. it found out the doctor we needed was at st. anne's.

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tonight on "crossfire" we've been debating what could make washington get serious about anothering. now let's call a ceasefire. is there anything we can agree on? >> there is one thing which we didn't talk a lot about this show but is in everybody's hearts. the death benefits for those fallen soldiers needs to be handled. that needs to be the number one job for the president and the congress. i don't like the cherry picking but that's one cherry everybody's got to pick. >> i couldn't agree with you more as an army brat. i appreciate you bringing it up. >> very good. you can go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback question. would breaching theeb